Do I really care if smokers die? It is each persons responsibility what they do with their body. What I care about is the stink and how much it bothers the rest of us who do not smoke
i agree with the anti-smoking debate and all... but it seems that people in this country need to be educated not to bother/disturb or harm each other by their behaviour in general. Most peoples physical existence and lifestyle harms others or destroys the environment in many ways. Smoking is only one of those activities, together with throwing rubbish everywhere, building ugly buildings, poluting the atmosphere, letting plants die, cutting trees down, contaminating water, treating animals badly, insulting old people, and immigrants etc... I could go on. It is not only about smoking
May I ask what is your definition of an ugly building? May I ask you how are you sure that the people who build ugly buildings are exclusively smokers? And if an immigrant smokes, is it insulting to throw him out of a public space if he doesn't extinguish his cigarette? And how do you view your perfect world? Inhihbited by a thousand copies of your extra-perfect self? Since the campaign to bansmoking seems rather difficult, why don't you switch to something easier? Why don't you try instead to band police tear gas, for example? Now that's a smog!...
mr anonymous: It is a pity that you are ashamed to put your name down. Are you not sure you are proud of what you believe? Anyhow of course police tear gas should be banned- I should be one of the first ones concerned since I live in bloody plateia exarhion and my little girl and my self have to breathe First the fumes from the plastic garbage burning under our window by people who are ashamed to show their faces and who wear black clothes AND the police who arrive hours later once all of these guys have gone so WE have to breathe the rest. ast vrasta diladi. filia kai agapi se olous nevertheless. bravo kostikaki kala ta les
Dear anonymous, i'm pleased and amused by your associations, but I'm sad that it seems to me you didn't get my point at all. I live in this city and I love and hate it at the same time. I think we should love the place we chose to live in, and try to make it a better place. (This is not romantic idealism, but faith that there is space for improvement) I don't think I'm perfect. A lot of beauty can be found in imperfection. I am an architect so my practice becomes my tool for observation on my surroundings, and as I consider myself a political person, as a citizen of this city I try to reach a standard of living that is not offensive to others or the environment. I believe in the traditional idea of the common good. I suppose this planet has become too crowded so finding ways to co-exist in harmony is constantly under friction. Smoking is a bad habit, I don't hate the people who smoke they just bother me when they smoke and are inconsiderate about the fact that others have to breathe their smoke. And this goes for al the other activities I mentioned. An ugly building is a building with no aesthetic value or standard and that in effect reflects the standard of the society that created it. I hope I answered your questions. happy to talk to you.
Hullo! Dear Rebecca, my "anonymous" post is just a technicality - didn't know how to tick the box ahead of the comment. My name is Iraklis Renieris and i still think i live in the same city (most of the time). Since i am a doctor of nothing, i cant defend anyone but my friends, so it's with genuine pleasure that i may announce to you that none of my friends burns plastic garbage before your or someone else's door... Also, if some of the so-caled and self-named Exarhia anarchists still prefer to wear black (such a cliche!) it's their business - not mine. In your short comment of the police teargas you have only two words about the real problem (tear gas handled by people who have to agree to some regulations) and a lot of words for their victims. Common reason (for some people) should prevail over state activities, not individual activities. Cops have to go by the book - no serious person would try to say taht the same applies for anarchists who, by definition, are not obliged to do the same... The hooligan is a law-breaker, the cop is a law enforcer. So first make sure that the cops don't suffocate all the people on tear gas and then let's have a talk about the others. "people who are ashamed to show their faces"? You mean the cops who wear helmets and hide their official badge numbers, don't you?... Dear Kostika, i am pleased to amuse you - my associations have their origin from the subconcious writings of the surrealists, the cut-up method of old-Bill Burroughs, the Pataphysics of mr. Alfred Jarry and the Greek applied ultra-hyper-realism of the Athens street culture. May i remind you that your "colleagues" have destroyed most of the Athens, long before the ambitious Xenia Kalpaktsoglou, Poka-Yio and Augustinos Zenakos? May i ask you what would happen if the dirty habit of having fun in places over 70 decibells of sound was suddenly shut down? Where would all the trendy people gather to philosophize about the aesthetic downhill of our beloved Big Olive? And what about all the places that sell this greasy meat skewers that put fat on our children and make them lazy and annoying? Those horrible places that sell large quantities of strong substances of a black dubious nature? And what about our standards that are offended everyday by this megalomaniac minority of the 300 hoodlums that have occupied a large space above plateia Sindagmatos? Offence? Have a look at our TV, then close it and take a walk to a church (the Maracanas of our fundamenatlism)- if you are still bored or amused, take care - my fingers are of my mouth and well over the keyboard... Have a good night (and lots of patience - or some share stocks in Easyjet) - kisses!
dear Irakli, I have practically the same feelings for both. Both losers, victims, and ashamed to show their faces. The way you describe them makes them actually even more alike both hiding behind the motorino helmets. The pseudo anarchists happened to break my car which cost me 2,000 euro to fix ( an old honda that my mom passed on to me) Anyhow don't pick on me onweather I wrote two or three lines and spare us the irony - I hate the stupid tear gas law and OF COURSE it should be banned. how could you get me wrong on that one. and if you Do have friends who are upset about things and feel like burning things we can give them a whole list of better things to burn don't you think? καληνύχτα σε όλους με πολλή πολλή αγάπη και λουλούδια και γιόγκα και φιλια κι άλλη και παπλώματα και χαμομήλια xxx
Dear Rebecca, irony is not a weapon for me that i would like to aim you with - it's just a form of expression... I am sorry that i can't see things in the same way: i aggree with the "pseudo" in "pseudo"-anarchists, but even in this mentality they cant be in the same bag with the policemen (there will always be a Goliath and a David...). I personally prefer to talk than burn old-Hondas (is this trying to imply that BMWs deserve to be burned?...). Really sorry for your car, nothing personal i hope. Now that i think of it again, i have some friends who feel like burning something more thatn incense, but i am sure they have a to-burn list of their own... Have a good and recreating night! Iraklis Renieris
Dear Iraklis, you condemn all architects just because some are bad practicioners? Not fair!And don't be so sure that they were all architects who destroyed this city. Some, quite alot were civil engineers or just constructors. But it seems to me that you're kind of into destruction...in a way from what you are saying. There is no irony that isn't aimed at somebody. Unless you mean you are cynical about everything you hear... I agree about TV never watch it, and about these 300 in the parliament. Some are really offensive... night night
Dear Kostika, It's not my ambition to be a Virilio of de(con)struction BUT the mentality of destruction is more powerful than most acts of destruction. When i refer to your "colleagues" (not colleagues) i do it simply to stress that a habit, a job, a skin colour, a sexual practice etc. is not a blanket that one can use in order to cover everything. Smokers are not criminals - not all of them, architects are not destroying cities - not all of them, anarchists are not mindless hoodlums - not all of them, bloggers are not acne-suffering misfits - not all of them etc. etc. Some times we flatter ourselves for being free-minded, not cynical, sensitive, socially conscious but these are all concepts that have to be tried really hard, to see who means what and for how long. I am not offering any solutions, i am not cynical, just sceptical - things will get worse when i will lose my faith even in nihilism... Meanwhile, irony is sometimes a hard weapon but also a legal one - and mind you that even a self conscious and visionary architect builds something in an empty space - most of the times this space has been emptied by an act of destruction - oh, my God here we go again, fuck you, Escher!... Have a good night, hon! Iraklis Renieris
dear irakli mallon to kourasame but I still feel like I have to say a couple of things before I call it quits in this ialogue. a. I think you are a great writer very eloquent and smooth- your ideas come accross with clarity and definition. b. My social/political/activist acts may not be so Grand indeed but I try my best to keep my garden clean (oops Voltaire!) and to act in my everyday life in small things rather than GREAT ideas. my favourite motos are: the ocean is made of drops and the bowl of rice is made of whatever you call it a grain? c. You are still being ironical ... burning insence etc but I forgive you because the humour is good. with all good intentions and thanks for writing to me that far, Yours, rebecca
Dear Rebecca, I have to confess that i feel flattered but i have no qualities in almost nothing (enter Muzil...) - Irony and sarcasm have a purpose, they are means to ignite and incite - not a weapon for the self-hating people-haters. Sadly, i think taht everybody has to fight at the same time in the fields of everyday activity AND ideas (not fossilized ideology). And what's with the incense? I like some of it myself... Have a nice day! P.S. I never feel hostility for people i don't know personally - if i do feel hostile, i never talk to them (communication can sometimes be very non-verbal...) - Cheers! Iraklis
Dear Iraklis, I was going to write a reply to your comment to me above, praising your eloquence etc But as I don't want to sound repetitive, I'll just say I'm 100% covered by all of what rebecca has written. I 'd like to think of myself as being free minded, and not pretend to be free minded! Mind you that "weapons" such as irony are perhaps restricting free mindedness. It has been a pleasure to converse with u. Nice day
What is freedom? If your community does not trust you to know when, where, how to smoke or spit or chew gum, there is a problem there. See my thesis at patnox.com.
17 comments:
Do I really care if smokers die? It is each persons responsibility what they do with their body. What I care about is the stink and how much it bothers the rest of us who do not smoke
i agree with the anti-smoking debate and all... but it seems that people in this country need to be educated not to bother/disturb or harm each other by their behaviour in general. Most peoples physical existence and lifestyle harms others or destroys the environment in many ways. Smoking is only one of those activities, together with throwing rubbish everywhere, building ugly buildings, poluting the atmosphere, letting plants die, cutting trees down, contaminating water, treating animals badly, insulting old people, and immigrants etc... I could go on. It is not only about smoking
May I ask what is your definition of an ugly building? May I ask you how are you sure that the people who build ugly buildings are exclusively smokers? And if an immigrant smokes, is it insulting to throw him out of a public space if he doesn't extinguish his cigarette? And how do you view your perfect world? Inhihbited by a thousand copies of your extra-perfect self? Since the campaign to bansmoking seems rather difficult, why don't you switch to something easier? Why don't you try instead to band police tear gas, for example? Now that's a smog!...
mr anonymous: It is a pity that you are ashamed to put your name down. Are you not sure you are proud of what you believe?
Anyhow of course police tear gas should be banned- I should be one of the first ones concerned since I live in bloody plateia exarhion and my little girl and my self have to breathe First the fumes from the plastic garbage burning under our window by people who are ashamed to show their faces and who wear black clothes AND the police who arrive hours later once all of these guys have gone so WE have to breathe the rest. ast vrasta diladi. filia kai agapi se olous nevertheless. bravo kostikaki kala ta les
Dear anonymous,
i'm pleased and amused by your associations, but I'm sad that it seems to me you didn't get my point at all. I live in this city and I love and hate it at the same time. I think we should love the place we chose to live in, and try to make it a better place. (This is not romantic idealism, but faith that there is space for improvement) I don't think I'm perfect. A lot of beauty can be found in imperfection. I am an architect so my practice becomes my tool for observation on my surroundings, and as I consider myself a political person, as a citizen of this city I try to reach a standard of living that is not offensive to others or the environment. I believe in the traditional idea of the common good. I suppose this planet has become too crowded so finding ways to co-exist in harmony is constantly under friction. Smoking is a bad habit, I don't hate the people who smoke they just bother me when they smoke and are inconsiderate about the fact that others have to breathe their smoke. And this goes for al the other activities I mentioned.
An ugly building is a building with no aesthetic value or standard and that in effect reflects the standard of the society that created it. I hope I answered your questions. happy to talk to you.
I like your comment Kostika, very sober and optimistic for this miserable situation of this city. Good to hear that on a blood monday
sorry Blue Monday.
thanks anonymous with no name
Hullo!
Dear Rebecca, my "anonymous" post is just a technicality - didn't know how to tick the box ahead of the comment. My name is Iraklis Renieris and i still think i live in the same city (most of the time). Since i am a doctor of nothing, i cant defend anyone but my friends, so it's with genuine pleasure that i may announce to you that none of my friends burns plastic garbage before your or someone else's door... Also, if some of the so-caled and self-named Exarhia anarchists still prefer to wear black (such a cliche!) it's their business - not mine. In your short comment of the police teargas you have only two words about the real problem (tear gas handled by people who have to agree to some regulations) and a lot of words for their victims. Common reason (for some people) should prevail over state activities, not individual activities. Cops have to go by the book - no serious person would try to say taht the same applies for anarchists who, by definition, are not obliged to do the same... The hooligan is a law-breaker, the cop is a law enforcer. So first make sure that the cops don't suffocate all the people on tear gas and then let's have a talk about the others. "people who are ashamed to show their faces"? You mean the cops who wear helmets and hide their official badge numbers, don't you?...
Dear Kostika, i am pleased to amuse you - my associations have their origin from the subconcious writings of the surrealists, the cut-up method of old-Bill Burroughs, the Pataphysics of mr. Alfred Jarry and the Greek applied ultra-hyper-realism of the Athens street culture. May i remind you that your "colleagues" have destroyed most of the Athens, long before the ambitious Xenia Kalpaktsoglou, Poka-Yio and Augustinos Zenakos? May i ask you what would happen if the dirty habit of having fun in places over 70 decibells of sound was suddenly shut down? Where would all the trendy people gather to philosophize about the aesthetic downhill of our beloved Big Olive? And what about all the places that sell this greasy meat skewers that put fat on our children and make them lazy and annoying? Those horrible places that sell large quantities of strong substances of a black dubious nature? And what about our standards that are offended everyday by this megalomaniac minority of the 300 hoodlums that have occupied a large space above plateia Sindagmatos? Offence? Have a look at our TV, then close it and take a walk to a church (the Maracanas of our fundamenatlism)- if you are still bored or amused, take care - my fingers are of my mouth and well over the keyboard... Have a good night (and lots of patience - or some share stocks in Easyjet) - kisses!
dear Irakli,
I have practically the same feelings for both. Both losers, victims, and ashamed to show their faces. The way you describe them makes them actually even more alike both hiding behind the motorino helmets. The pseudo anarchists happened to break my car which cost me 2,000 euro to fix ( an old honda that my mom passed on to me) Anyhow don't pick on me onweather I wrote two or three lines and spare us the irony - I hate the stupid tear gas law and OF COURSE it should be banned. how could you get me wrong on that one. and if you Do have friends who are upset about things and feel like burning things we can give them a whole list of better things to burn don't you think?
καληνύχτα σε όλους με πολλή πολλή αγάπη και λουλούδια και γιόγκα και φιλια κι άλλη και παπλώματα και χαμομήλια xxx
Dear Rebecca, irony is not a weapon for me that i would like to aim you with - it's just a form of expression... I am sorry that i can't see things in the same way: i aggree with the "pseudo" in "pseudo"-anarchists, but even in this mentality they cant be in the same bag with the policemen (there will always be a Goliath and a David...). I personally prefer to talk than burn old-Hondas (is this trying to imply that BMWs deserve to be burned?...). Really sorry for your car, nothing personal i hope. Now that i think of it again, i have some friends who feel like burning something more thatn incense, but i am sure they have a to-burn list of their own... Have a good and recreating night!
Iraklis Renieris
Dear Iraklis, you condemn all architects just because some are bad practicioners? Not fair!And don't be so sure that they were all architects who destroyed this city. Some, quite alot were civil engineers or just constructors. But it seems to me that you're kind of into destruction...in a way from what you are saying.
There is no irony that isn't aimed at somebody. Unless you mean you are cynical about everything you hear... I agree about TV never watch it, and about these 300 in the parliament. Some are really offensive...
night night
Dear Kostika,
It's not my ambition to be a Virilio of de(con)struction BUT the mentality of destruction is more powerful than most acts of destruction. When i refer to your "colleagues" (not colleagues) i do it simply to stress that a habit, a job, a skin colour, a sexual practice etc. is not a blanket that one can use in order to cover everything. Smokers are not criminals - not all of them, architects are not destroying cities - not all of them, anarchists are not mindless hoodlums - not all of them, bloggers are not acne-suffering misfits - not all of them etc. etc. Some times we flatter ourselves for being free-minded, not cynical, sensitive, socially conscious but these are all concepts that have to be tried really hard, to see who means what and for how long. I am not offering any solutions, i am not cynical, just sceptical - things will get worse when i will lose my faith even in nihilism... Meanwhile, irony is sometimes a hard weapon but also a legal one - and mind you that even a self conscious and visionary architect builds something in an empty space - most of the times this space has been emptied by an act of destruction - oh, my God here we go again, fuck you, Escher!... Have a good night, hon!
Iraklis Renieris
dear irakli mallon to kourasame but I still feel like I have to say a couple of things before I call it quits in this ialogue.
a. I think you are a great writer very eloquent and smooth- your ideas come accross with clarity and definition.
b. My social/political/activist acts may not be so Grand indeed but I try my best to keep my garden clean (oops Voltaire!) and to act in my everyday life in small things rather than GREAT ideas. my favourite motos are: the ocean is made of drops and the bowl of rice is made of whatever you call it a grain?
c. You are still being ironical ... burning insence etc but I forgive you because the humour is good.
with all good intentions and thanks for writing to me that far,
Yours,
rebecca
Dear Rebecca,
I have to confess that i feel flattered but i have no qualities in almost nothing (enter Muzil...) - Irony and sarcasm have a purpose, they are means to ignite and incite - not a weapon for the self-hating people-haters. Sadly, i think taht everybody has to fight at the same time in the fields of everyday activity AND ideas (not fossilized ideology). And what's with the incense? I like some of it myself... Have a nice day!
P.S. I never feel hostility for people i don't know personally - if i do feel hostile, i never talk to them (communication can sometimes be very non-verbal...) - Cheers!
Iraklis
Dear Iraklis,
I was going to write a reply to your comment to me above, praising your eloquence etc But as I don't want to sound repetitive, I'll just say I'm 100% covered by all of what rebecca has written.
I 'd like to think of myself as being free minded, and not pretend to be free minded! Mind you that "weapons" such as irony are perhaps restricting free mindedness.
It has been a pleasure to converse with u.
Nice day
What is freedom? If your community does not trust you to know when, where, how to smoke or spit or chew gum, there is a problem there. See my thesis at patnox.com.
Post a Comment